What’s your backstory?  Can you tell us a bit about yourself? 

I am John, and I’m from Pueblo, CO.  

I have traveled all over the place doing a whole bunch of different things.  I kind of found that all the jobs I had and the places I went, I ended up working with people, and I was really good at it.  

I was a Hospital Corpsman in the US Navy, so a combat medic.  I went to college at University of Colorado Boulder, graduating with a degree in Sociology.  I was a crime victim advocate up in Denver.  I ended up being a pretrial case manager for delinquent youth here in Pueblo.  They were really tough jobs, but also really rewarding jobs. 

I got to work with kiddos and people who just really needed help, but it was tough.  My wife sat me down one day and she said, “why don’t you do something that you love.”

So, we started looking, and, right around COVID, there were all those great opportunities for remote work, and we found a job as a professional dungeon master for kids… and I fell in love with it. 

It was doing that that inspired me to start Heroes Wanted.

You said that you loved tabletop RPGs, when did you start playing TTRPGs?  And do you have a single favorite moment that you remember? 

Well, my start was rocky.  I did start with just some board games, made some friends, we were 16-17 and didn’t have a lot of money, and… we realized that you can get a lot more replay value out of buying board games than buying video games.

The first one that we bought was Last Night on Earth, which is a zombie survival game.  It’s still great and amazing almost 20 years later.  We started with that, and, while going to the game stores, we saw fliers to play Dungeons and Dragons. 

We thought… oh, we could do that!  We would never have to buy anything again, we could come up with our own adventures!  Let’s do it!

The local game store did it on Thursdays, and, like I said, it was a horrible experience. 

We showed up, and we were excited, bright-eyed, and ready to go… and no one would let us play at their tables.   All the signs and fliers said to come in and anyone was welcome and they would teach you, and we didn’t find that.  

But then, in the very corner of the room, there was a dad that would DM for his son and his friends.  He welcomed us, and we ended up playing at the 10 year old table.  

It was fun, but the rejection from most tables put a bad taste in our mouths, so we figured we would do it ourselves.  We pitched in and bought the Player’s Handbook and Monster Manual and never looked back.  

That was really the intro there, and it’s been 15 years since. 

I would say that my favorite experience or biggest moment was… I had a buddy who was really competitive, and I inadvertently broke his campaign with my full charisma based character.  He was an old, crusty, human pirate captain named Captain Finn.  

I was playing the homebrew swashbuckler because the swashbuckler hadn’t been released yet, and that one is kind of like a bard-rogue hybrid.  Your charisma kind of splashes to your attacks; you don’t have any magic, but you get a massive advantage on any charisma check. 

It was a nightmare for my buddy. 

What ended up happening was that Captain Finn wanted to steal a pirate ship, or just any ship, and he goes to the royal docks, and… I have never rolled that many nat20’s in my life, and I made off with a ship and had the entire kingdom’s armada chasing the party and me. 

My buddy the GM just stopped and was like, “Guys… I don’t know where to go with this.  The kingdom is going to hunt you down for forever.  You’re level 2… uh…. “

So, we stopped that campaign, but it was one of those moments where it was antagonistic but also so fun. 

That is cool that he let you roll with it before getting to just the… I don’t know what to do now? 

He was a new DM, so I don’t think he was fully prepared for what he was getting into.  Everyone was still having fun, but we still make jokes about that 7-8 years later. 

And going back a little bit to when you first started, I know that it was a rough start, but that one dad who welcomed you to the table with this kid; I’ve got to imagine that gave you something to work with for starting your own game. 

I think it was that welcoming mindset.  I wanted to emulate that. 

I have noticed that there’s sometimes this hesitancy to teach new people because it’s a lot of work and they have to slow things down.  I’ve always dove in, and I love teaching people.  I like taking that extra step. 

It’s like… this happened to me; I want to make sure that never happens to you. 

That dad was amazing, and it’s kind of funny… I never saw him again, and I never knew his name, but that memory really stayed with me.  

It was an act of kindness.  That’s what coming together to play games should really be about. 

Yes; it’s that impact of one experience.  

And I love teaching new players too.  It just adds to the pool of people in your group, and it’s such a gift too. 

Yes, and my favorite thing is when I have new players, I have this pool of tutorial dungeons that I pull from, and I’ll run them through a 4 hour session to teach them.  A lot of those people have now moved on to run their own games, and it’s great to see the growth that comes from that. 

You’ve taken this love of teaching new players and extended it to your business, Heroes Wanted.  Can you tell us a bit about Heroes Wanted and what you specifically do there? 

Sure!  Heroes Wanted is a place for virtual D&D and Minecraft classes, and we call them classes because there is strong emphasis on learning and community with those. 

We wanted to really have a place where you could play and have fun, but there are also actual values and lessons that come from that.  From my experience gaming with children, you do really see these kiddos growing and getting into it and making friends and problem solving… and it’s all there. 

You can read all the articles and everything out there and from all the people who have DM’d for kiddos, you can really see the application of all this in the game.  It was something we really wanted to stress. 

All of our classes are 2 hours in length, they meet once per week, and we organize them into 10 week seasons.  They’re all designed with kiddos in mind, and we really tailor the content and experience for kids. 

We’ve gone through D&D and pulled out the things that aren’t necessary for this, like we don’t deal with romances or include the racial elements.  Dwarves don’t have to hate elves; that’s not something we want, particularly in a class with 8 year olds.  We really look at that content. 

The big thing is that we really try to streamline the process for online mediums.  We use zoom, roll20, a virtual rolling system, and our own custom character sheets that we can easily share in google docs with parents and kiddos. 

The instructors and kiddos have access to that at all times, so if you have a kid who is really motivated and into it, they can edit their own sheet with some help, or the instructor can do it all for them.  It just depends on a kid-by-kid basis. 

We want to offer a safe and creative space where they can all learn and grow together and possibly make lifelong friends.  I know that I’m still friends with the people I was playing with when I was 16, so it really can happen. 

And you have something that you use called The Players’ Pact, correct?  What is that, and how does it factor into the groups that you run? 

The Players’ Pact is a set of core values that all participants are held to.  Kiddos, instructors, and parents all need to align with this set of values. 

We start each of our classes by reviewing The Players’ Pact and play expectations for that specific class.  

The Players’ Pact is built up of respect, safety, consent, teamwork, and trustworthiness. 

We are using this to set expectations and create a means for group accountability.   That’s something I learned in various jobs I’ve had; I worked with kids in a very different setting as a pre-trial case manager, but I learned there that if you set those clear expectations early on, you usually end up with better interactions since they know what to expect. 

The Players’ Pact also provides a framework to acknowledge and modify behaviors.  It’s a tool to not demonize the offending student.  

It’s not like, “Hey Steph, I can’t believe you said that!”

It’s, “Hey all!  Something came up, and I think that we need to address it.  This topic may be a little uncomfortable, so let’s talk about it and how we can move away from that.”

It isolates the behavior and isn’t focused on calling out the student.  It makes a great framework for handling any kind of disagreements and conflict, and it creates a means so individuals students and kiddos can have their own agency as well. 

Especially when working with kids, there’s a lot of different ideas everywhere, so, one of our core components, respect, is about honoring everyone’s ideas and hearing everyone out.  It helps to play out different plans and see what can happen. 

It’s a great way to approach everything with a sense of empathy by helping to interrupt a possible cycle of heightening emotions that can cause a stronger dispute.  That’s a great teaching tool to show kids, on a regular basis, how to communicate and respond with empathy. 

That’s another big point with this; everything in the Players’ Pact isn’t just applicable to games.  That is all applicable to real life situations. 

Something that’s in all of our training for the program is that we can stop play, and, if there’s something important that we need to break down, we should do it.  That way, those feelings and behaviors don’t permeate and go on for forever.  

I’m sure, you playing TTRPGs with your groups, you can see that going on too.  Sometimes, if you nip it in the bud early, it makes play much easier down the road. 

Now, you run your games online.  A lot of people talk about the advantages of in-person play, but there are some advantages to online play too.  What are some of the advantages that you’ve seen? 

I think that the biggest part, is just ease of access to so many resources. 

Using D&D as a framework, there’s so many books; I’ve played for years, and it’s like… OK, there’s 30 tabs in this book, let me go to this page, and the rule on this situation is this…. 

It really eats up on the time to access those resources and find something.   Early in my DM career, there have been a lot of times that I’ve had no idea where to find it. 

When online though, all of those tools and resources and rulings can be looked up almost instantly. 

The ease of access and being able to share it are amazing. 

Then, with something like Roll20, you can instantly transition a battlemap. 

I remember when we had to take a 15-20 minute break to set up a battlemap and cover parts of it with a blanket to reveal as we go.  Now, with Roll20, it’s like, boop, good to go!

So, online, you aren’t taking those awkward breaks and having little waiting sessions, and you can keep the momentum in the adventure rolling. 

The amount of customization with online play is also great.  Especially with kiddos who are so visually based and may struggle with abstract critical thinking and theater of the mind, you can show them.  Having those visuals ready online are great for them. 

Let’s say a kiddo is playing a cleric, and they want their spiritual weapon to be a cute frog.  Now, we have the means to look up an image of a cute frog, drag it into the game, and there’s that cute frog going around smacking everyone in the battlefield with it’s tongue.  That particular child is validated in their ask, it becomes a really funny scene, and they’re so much more attached, now that you’ve let them express this in the game.  I really really love that with the online play. 

The last part, too, is that you can play with anyone from anywhere. 

For our last question, what advice do you have for someone who has a kid who wants to get into TTRPGs for the first time? 

I would say that the biggest thing is to do your research and don’t settle. 

There are so many different tables out there and online resources available.  Every table is different, and you want to find the right game master and group to fit. 

I feel like, if you do settle, that can really lead to bad experiences and ruin that game for you forever.  

Find the right form, the right place, and, most importantly, someone who is welcoming for that new player.  

I know that some programs, like ours at Heroes Wanted, do offer free trials, so you can take advantage of that before paying and locking anything in.  Just shop around. 

Another point too is that, as a parent, if you get into that specific TTRPG, that’s going to be so much more impactful for your family and your child.  The great thing with role-playing games is that they do have the ability to bring people and families together.  You learning about and doing it together is a great way to make connections that you may not normally make. 

And where can we find your work? 

For anyone interested in our programs, you can visit us at our website at: https://www.heroeswanted.kids/

And you can always email us at any time at: admin@heroeswanted.kids

I just want to thank you Steph for this opportunity; it was a lot of fun being able to talk about all of this!

And thank you for doing the interview!  It’s always fun getting different people’s perspectives and hearing their stories, and sharing experiences helps everyone level up.  It was great chatting with you too.